tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post5130781979258521032..comments2023-12-10T05:51:24.892-08:00Comments on HumanAntiGravitySuit: "Touch is good" - HumanPrimateSocialGrooming manualDiane Jacobshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01356363026969420734noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-88637498096722997092012-09-11T21:00:52.786-07:002012-09-11T21:00:52.786-07:00Thank you for your comment.Thank you for your comment.Diane Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356363026969420734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-49748277601854231752012-09-11T20:50:42.665-07:002012-09-11T20:50:42.665-07:00Thanks to Walt Fritz blog post about feeling what ...Thanks to Walt Fritz blog post about feeling what is under your hands, there are some good points - especially cause no nocioception. I do believe you have some good points in treating as a human primate social groomer and I also believe we can effect different structures albiet through the skin and in addition to the nervous system. I am a PT turned social groomer when I found a body of work which was not painful and honored the whole of the person and not just their parts. It is called Aston-Kinetics and encompasses assessment, movement and bodywork with this perspective of wholeness and rightness about what is going on. The work feels like a good hug for the painful area, and give support in a minimally invasive way . I am on a mission as it appears you are to change the touch of PT and more aggressive techniques. Have a more thoughtful caring and intelligent approach to healing. Michelle Waldhttp://www.michellewald.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-15884160150680685152010-10-31T01:02:16.737-07:002010-10-31T01:02:16.737-07:00Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, danthema...Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, dantheman22. Music to my eyes. Indeed, you are not alone.<br /> <br />I think the somatosensory cortex would get very jazzed indeed with four hands massaging it, simultaneously. And the insular cortex would probably love not having to deal with processing added nociception. <br /><br />And you keep up your own good work too! :-) Maybe someday our work, and whatever sense we can make of it, will vindicate itself.Diane Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356363026969420734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-33883099804804565032010-10-31T00:15:49.304-07:002010-10-31T00:15:49.304-07:00Ayurveda the ancient Indian system may have had it...Ayurveda the ancient Indian system may have had it right all along. They use warm sesame oil massage all over the body, sometimes with two practitioners applying it, one either side of the body. The effect of four hands massaging you is supposed to “disarm the nervous system” into total relaxation. They consider the skin to have a direct relationship to the nervous system (they call it Vata). But there is no inflicting of nociception, it is more about relaxation and nourishing the skin. Specific foods can help reduce Vata or nervous energy are interesting to read about too, well worth “googling” if you have time.<br />Anyway, I think I am a much better clinicians from having read your article. Certainly more thoughtful and reflective about what it is that I actually do. I forwarded your message onto a colleague who is a massage therapist and we now compare notes about how many people we have “socially groomed” that particular day, (much to the bewilderment of our other workmates.) On the other hand, another senior physio wasn’t that impressed, in fact he seemed a little offended………I guess it comes down to trying not to get too attached to our concepts and certainly not to mistake them for reality. <br /> Keep up the good work!dantheman22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-11041662868271611642010-10-31T00:14:18.414-07:002010-10-31T00:14:18.414-07:00Just wanted to say a big thanks for posting your a...Just wanted to say a big thanks for posting your article on Human Primate Social Grooming. Very inspirational and helped me a lot. Thank-you!<br /><br />I have been a physio for ten years, the last 5 have been in private practice. I can really relate to what you are saying. Just today in fact I had a new patient (no previous history of pain) who came to me after a relatively minor whiplash injury. She received 20 sessions of “rough-house physio" and exercises that made her more painful. Countless specialist visits, swallowing 18 pills a day and not sleeping. Also battling with her most recent diagnosis of "fibromyalgia". She thought a large part of it was due to her initial physio going too hard to early. <br /><br />So I did a little poll today and 80% of my patients needed only "Human Primate Social Grooming". Nothing too complicated. Just some gentle hands on "without causing nociception". (Love your rule there by the way, that is a big help, thank-you).<br />It always amazes me how effective simple, proper education can help most people. I really think it’s the most important thing for people in pain. The Human Primate Social Grooming approach fits nicely because it gives us a chance to talk to our patients and “massage their brains” or perceptions if you like, whilst providing some non—threatening input. Dare I say, I also like using ultrasound because it gives me a few minutes to really talk to them and hammer home some important truths about their pain. <br /><br />In the past I have been frustrated because there are so many treatment options for clinicians, that we each have our own little interpretations and idiosyncrasies. As a student I was totally confused and couldn’t really buy into anyone’s concept wholly. <br />Sometimes I think it would be easier to just to have a very defined, purely anatomical base to what we do (operator). For example a surgeon performing a TKR. But then again, we are dealing with people and I guess that's what makes our job so interesting and satisfying; the interactor component.<br />I really like your statement about some people trying to be more operator models and complicating treatment. I can finally say after 10 years of being a physio that I am really over paying lots of money to so called “gurus” for their complicated concepts. In fact I am heading the other way, keeping it as simple as possible. I normally keep quiet when in the physio tea room everyone is debating about the exact location of pain in sinus tarsi syndrome, or how bad an MRI report is on someone’s lumbar spine or how someone had an upslip in the innominate. <br /><br />I was supervising a 4th year physio student recently and I wasn’t sure how much of this to share with her (was still grappling with it in my own head). My treatments are so uncomplicated that I almost felt like a fraud. Luckily I still seemed to get decent results without using fancy, complicated techniques. Being gentle and not producing nociception was a little hard for her to grasp. I did give her some good pain type articles, Explain Pain and she also read the pain chapter from “the brain that changes itself” which I think she got a lot out of. But as a student, to be able to “pass” you do need to “tow the line” and comply with certain operator standards.<br />But I think now, thanks to you Diane, and knowing that there are others out there who think along the same lines, that I can feel ok about the way I treat my patients. It was a nice feeling to know I am not alone.dantheman22noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-12111139787448068622010-10-12T12:52:51.063-07:002010-10-12T12:52:51.063-07:00twaza,
No, I had not heard of that book or that an...twaza,<br />No, I had not heard of that book or that anyone beside me had ever come up with those terms. <br /><br />> "I don't think that the social grooming instinct is dead, just that education, training, and political correctness conspire effectively to suppress it." <br /><br />Yeah - culture, its dictates, colonizing our own inner primate don't-rock-the-boat, favor-the-troop-over-self-in-order-to-survive default mechanisms.<br /><br />DianeDiane Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356363026969420734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-42405571244470233552010-10-12T12:42:29.545-07:002010-10-12T12:42:29.545-07:00Thanks Diane
I don't think that the social gr...Thanks Diane<br /><br />I don't think that the social grooming instinct is dead, just that education, training, and political correctness conspire effectively to suppress it.<br /><br />My personal experience leads me to think that <i>awareness</i> of the social grooming instinct is quite rare in treaters. I think that a large part of the explanation for this is that, as a student, your immediate challenge is to become a competent operator. And once you are there, it is hard to realize that becoming a competent interactor should also be part of your personal development plan. <br /><br />Have you read Iain McGilchrist's <i>The master and his emissary</i>? The metaphor he uses to explain everything is left brain (operator) and right brain (interactor).<br /><br />You needn't apologise for your ineptness on blogging - it is a design issue that the operators at google need to solve.<br /><br />My antennae detected a reference on twitter that led me to your blog.twaza (@wassabeee on twitter)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11078200068429582694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-84736156000086589912010-10-12T10:23:28.819-07:002010-10-12T10:23:28.819-07:00Hi twaza,
There will be more of us, by and by, if...Hi twaza,<br /><br />There will be more of us, by and by, if I have anything to do with it. It isn't as though this social grooming instinct were dead - it's very much alive in people who are treaters. It's that what we are "taught" gets in the way of what we should "learn."<br /><br />Whether I would know about any where you live depends on where you live. <br /><br />About the feed, etc., I apologize for my ineptness - I don't have a clue how to set the blog so it can be more social-media-friendly. I've tried exploring the bowels of the pages about settings, on more than one occasion, and had to give up.<br /><br />You found me, so I guess it can't be completely invisible.Diane Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356363026969420734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17692328.post-75413022212440023012010-10-12T04:45:14.211-07:002010-10-12T04:45:14.211-07:00Diane
I have been looking for sometime now for a ...Diane<br /><br />I have been looking for sometime now for a full-on, out-of-the-closet, interactor-model human primate social groomer. <b>And today I found one.</b><br /><br />Are there any others?<br /><br />You are spot on with the social grooming; the interactor/operator distinction lit a big light bulb; and the "do no nocicepting" is quite plausible.<br /> <br />I would like to follow your blog, but the RSS feeds work only for the comments. IE complains "Internet Explorer does not support feeds with DTDs." Google reader just gives up and says I can't cope. :-(twaza (@wassabeee on twitter)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11078200068429582694noreply@blogger.com